New Game on vanilla EFS 1.4

MP related, ...

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Nick Cav
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Location: Hauppauge, NY

Postby Nick Cav » Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:16 pm

so purple,guess this is war for me accidentally raising wages?

Russell
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Postby Russell » Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:37 pm

I believe he only found out about your wages when his force arrived. Here is my assumption, and correct me if I'm wrong (from his perspective): I found some ships in a ruin that give me a tangible advantage over every other player right now. I should take advantage of this and do some heavy damage to a close competitor that's expanding faster than everyone else.

It's not up to any of us to dictate how early someone attacks, especially when most EFS games never play out to the conclusion of an emperor. Everyone can band against him if they so choose, this is part of how the game is played. Early conflict sparks intrigue and drama. Personally, I'm going to watch and wait, especially because I feel Hawkwood has a hard enough start in the historical galaxy as is. But you can (and should) assume his invasion is completely unrelated to the wages, and you should lower them back to 75% this turn.

Garison
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Russel

Postby Garison » Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:27 pm

Russel, you say you have "some" C++ skills, what do you mean? i tried to program a Hex based game a few years back. I got to the point where i could print a screen of hexs, define each as a terrain type( image) on the fly, mouse interface, unit placements on the fly, unit charts (like image,name,hex placement, ect), but i did not have any game mechanics coded. I did however set it up so that anytime i wanted i could Mox-shoot an enemt tank with sound effects...just for testing and fun. This was all done in C or C+ i'm not sure which. Nobody could move or fire or anything like that, but it was an "engine" in all sense of the word. a very bad 1995s engine, built in 2005.
The point being that i could of made a remarkabely crapy and poorly coded game in 8 to 10 months, with at most ZERO previous experience (a few months in university to be honest), and anyone with some real life experience could probablely do infinately better.
I have wanted to make this damn game for 10+ years. maybe even longer! I am still stalwart in my ambition to do it. I have made the game in my head 5 times and remade them 6 times, have made detailed budgets and schedules multiple times, and even began creating my own universe from scratch.
I have a good business sense, and i think there is alot of money in a game like EFS, the concept of 4X has a cult following that buys all these types of games, i know, cause i am one of them. If we made a product and priced it right, we could all make a bit of money. Most importantly, we could continue on to making more of them. Check out the game "AI wars"; it is not very graphicly intense, but it seems to sell like crazy on steam.
We can market a game on steam fairly easily. They accept proposals from companys of all sizes; that way we could avoid all the costs of creating physical CDs for store sales, and instead focus on the online vendors. For a backyard project it would work perfect to get us off the ground. Look at the game Battle of Norghan (not on steam but a good showcase example), its priced at 29.99 and has graphics that are STONE AGE! We could market our game at 14.99 and get them to put it on sale for 9.99 for a few days to garner interest.
We can put a free "demo" version up on steam as advertisement and have a "Beta-testing" version for free a month before the release to anyone who has pre-ordered.
say we have a team of 8 people. steam gets a cut of 25% (maybe less, as it costs them very little to host the game), and we sell at 14.99; that leaves a huge profit of 11.25 per unit. assuming our governments get another 20% of that we still see a rather large return for the 8 member development team. 1$ profite per member per unit sold and 1$ towards the next game maybe?
I have created 3d models,but i have never textured one. i an no 2d grahpic experience. I use to own a cleaning business, so i have read alot about business managment, and i am a manager at a grocery store now , so i have some management experience. i can create pseudo-code, and i am good at planning. I can do the administrating end, as long as i have a spell-checker handy. I got some cash to burn, and i accept paypal if we need something funky like a lawyer and a copy write.
I would expect a contract, signed and photocopied and returned to me for anyone that wants to do this seriously though; under those conditions i might pay people to help !!
I don't know where i am going with this, just thought i'd spew this years version of the message i have posted here for years. I am ready, i have grown, where does everyone else stand ? are we ready for this yet. we keep coming her for a reason. what have we learned. what have we gained ?

LeperColony
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Postby LeperColony » Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:06 pm

I suggest that we also try to remember a little civility. If we find something we think is anomolous, let's raise the issue in a mature and productive fashion, rather than in an accusatory one.

For instance,

Good: "X, I noticed that Factor Y is currently at Z. How did you get to Z?"

Bad: "X ignored the rules. He sucks!"

By the same token, please remember to respond with civility, even if that spirit was lacking in the original communication.

Good: "I manaed to get to Z by doing such and such."

Bad: "Anyone who thinks I had to cheat to get Z is a moron."

Remember, for however long the game lasts, the object is to have fun. That's not going to happen if things become bitter and personal.

Russell
Noble
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Location: USA

Re: Russel

Postby Russell » Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:01 am

Garison, I wouldn't say I'm even up to that point, my only C++ experience is a university course and some stuff on my own time and a lot of my knowledge is more useful on the data end rather than creating a good game engine. One of my good friends is probably a little beyond your level but I'm highly skeptical he's interested in making games. My knowledge is more based around web based coding languages and if I undertook anything on EFS I would want it to be in C++ or another object-orientated language. I've been learning it slowly but it may take another 2 or 3 years for me to really get to the level of producing something like EFS. Especially when it comes to programming the AI. But hey, I've been visiting this forum for 10 years on and off, so I expect I still will be in 2 or 3 years.

Your idea about creating a 4X for Steam sounds interesting. I too am a cult fan of these types of games and wish there were more. The problem of course is getting all the right pieces together and making a fun, engaging game that was worth the time and effort. An EFS remake is something I can get motivation to make on my own time, for free. Obviously we wouldn't have rights to sell it. A completely new franchise would probably take a little more motivation. One of my friends is a talented artist but I tried to convince him to make sprites for a 2D RPG I wanted to create (for my own amusement) but he just couldn't get motivation to do it. I would be more inclined to re-make EFS from the ground up, using the same graphics, design philosophy and music, but with all the fixed bugs, features and AI. This would be an important first step in learning all the loops and holes in making a 4X game, plus I think we can all agree an improved EFS would be an awesome thing to have. One where unit loyalty issues don't even need to be spoken of.

swordsaint
Fighter pilot
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:28 am
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece

Postby swordsaint » Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:28 am

I don't have time now, but I will read all your posts later in the day. As for the ships, I attacked ruins and the ships were in the rebel stack. I never reloaded the game, I never strayed from the rules we set, and I'm a man of my word, the ships were just an unexpected surprise that I, of course, took advantage of.
Chronomancy: the art and science of divining the appropriate time for an act.

Garison
Space Legionnaire
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 2:01 am

Postby Garison » Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:22 pm

Leper, i second your sentiment!



Russel, it was really easy or i am a computer wizard, or both :D :D
even the ai didnt seem that daunting when i really thought about it. although i did not get to the AI part of it.
I should really emphasize that i was a stone cold newbie when i started making my version, and i was impressed at how simple it all seemed to fit together. once you get in above your knees things start clicking. The hardest part was the hexs. Making a "movement area" for units was very tough the way i designed, because each column and each row was given a number... The nature of hexs 6way direction was confounding at first, and i spent atleast 2 weeks on it.
I can promise that anyone remotely professional would of puked at the sight of my shoady code. some simple routines were a page long and should of been 4 lines of code.

An alternative to actually makes the engine ourselves would be to buy one.

i really do have a universe a quarter completed on paper and half completed in my head. its an interesting engaging universe and i am more then willing to share it. Its dark, grity, but with sutle glimmers of hope and friendship. I will discuss the characters and atmosphere through e-mail if you wish. Its completely "fresh" i think, atleast some aspects, and is alot slower paced universe then most franchises out there. only the government posses wormhole tech, and its expensive, primitive, and glitchy. most importantly, its the only way to travel :)
That alone would help set my universe apart from others. Oh and everyone lives for atleast 1000 years ;) i pulled alot for ancient myths and such. everyone is the ideal human, genetic remodeling is rampant, and most people can jump a building in a single bound. Pets have evloved into a sub-par civilization, various factions treat them differenert from a slave class to full citizens. Terraforming is primative, and slow. Its a not the birth of the spacefaring humans, but more like humanity is learning to walk, and all the morality that comes along with incredible power and patience.

to sum it up in a nutshell; the universe is this. Everyone is super-human, but everyone is caged in the solarsystem. Our ability to advance ourselves developed alot quicker then our ability to give ourselves the space for growth. sounds like the start of a war to me ;)

swordsaint
Fighter pilot
Posts: 34
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Location: Thessaloniki, Greece

Postby swordsaint » Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:02 pm

I just read your posts. First of all, there was nothing personal in what I said about Nick, I am not a bitter person. I merely objected to the realization that the rules were broken. If this is corrected, then I am of good will, and I will trust that no traits or anything else has been messed with and that we can continue playing on a friendly level, I never thought of it otherwise. Rest assured that my invasion of Aragon had nothing to do with that, I actually realized that when my ships were over your planet and no ealier.

Now, regarding the EFS remake, (or the game that Garison is planning to make), I have to say that this whole thing strikes me as more than just interesting. Unfortunately, and it really is a shame, I do not have any coding knowledge whatsoever (except for - I know you'll laugh - some logo courses I took 13 years ago, when I was 14), and can contribute little to that part. However, I am a scholarly type of person, and very good at designing plots and stories, due to many years of Game Mastering and love of knight-tales and literature in general. If there was a good effort on route, I could perhaps sit down and do some planning for the game, or enrich it with several good ideas. Personally, I think EFS is close to perfection, and if we could create a universe with greater possibilities, but also arising not-expected difficulties to overcome, that game would leave an even bigger stamp in history than EFS did.
Chronomancy: the art and science of divining the appropriate time for an act.

Garison
Space Legionnaire
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 2:01 am

subject

Postby Garison » Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:59 pm

So we need a few things then.


A programmer. A good one, and...cheap...free? This person will be the backbone of a game. He or she would need the "get it done" mentality of a hard worker. small incremental goal setting and great planning skills. Not only for solid design, but also the flexibility to accomadate us creative types. They will lay the foundation and create the tools needed for the rest of the team. I think this person is to be worshipped. They are the make it happen person.

A 2d graphics artists. Nothing special about this position. The pace will be slow, and methodical. A "when needed" position. Polish is less important then variety in the early stage, but of greater emphasis near the end stage. Many people can assume this mantle, or one single dedicated person. i prefer option 2, but variety of style may also be important.


We have:

3 poor excuses for pretend programmers.
Alot of ideas.
Masterful levels of game knownledge within this genre of games.


We really are masters of this style of game...i have played them for 15 years. thats considered expert level in most professions. I have seriously played every hex-based strategy and 4x game from 1983 to 2010, with the exception of maybe 3 dozen.

So, what can we do with what we have.

well, we can create the game mechanics, set up faction backgrounds, create backstory, design storylines, unit discriptions, ect. basicly we can do some math and write some stories.

I think step-one is coming to terms with a the game mechanics. First an out-line, then finer details. start with the basics of combat (movement, attack, spot, ect), then unit design (cost,specalization,techlv,production speed,ect), economical model (income, limited resources,tech research,expansion,ect) and finally global mechanics....like the emporer elections, or the curch, diplomacy and alliances ect.

everyone should check out the game WESNOTH, it is very popular, is free, and embodies alot of what i seek in combat mechanics.

LeperColony
Assault Legionnaire
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:01 am
Location: CA

Postby LeperColony » Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:52 pm

swordsaint wrote:I just read your posts. First of all, there was nothing personal in what I said about Nick, I am not a bitter person. I merely objected to the realization that the rules were broken. If this is corrected, then I am of good will, and I will trust that no traits or anything else has been messed with and that we can continue playing on a friendly level, I never thought of it otherwise. Rest assured that my invasion of Aragon had nothing to do with that, I actually realized that when my ships were over your planet and no ealier.


Well, whatever you intended to say, many people will naturally take an accusation that they "failed to follow the rules" as a personal attack. In fact, you can tell that's what happened, because in his reply, Nick was somewhat less than civil. My only point is that there's a way to raise and respond to issues that reduces tension rather than increases it.

swordsaint
Fighter pilot
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:28 am
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece

Postby swordsaint » Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:53 am

I agree. But you cannot say I was not civil in my statement about what happened. Anyway, I consider this matter finished, he corrected his unit pay so all is good and we can play.
Chronomancy: the art and science of divining the appropriate time for an act.

LeperColony
Assault Legionnaire
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:01 am
Location: CA

Postby LeperColony » Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:31 am

I encountered a slight problem. After receiving the Turn 8 save, I copied it and loaded the saved game as usual. But rather than coming up on House Decados's turn, it came up on House Hazat's. What do I do?

swordsaint
Fighter pilot
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:28 am
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece

Postby swordsaint » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:08 pm

Ups... I might have accidentally sent Nick's turn to you. Send it to him if you don't mind.

Guys, I'm extremely excited today. I just started a soapmaking workshop and made an e-shop for it using webnode (coz I'm not very skilled when it comes to website making). You can visit it if you want, it's at www.thenaturalworkshop.gr (greek version) and www.thenaturalworkshop.com (english version). I wish I could take you all out for drinks to celebrate. ;)

Edit: I just checked, I sent the turn to Nick. I don't know what happened, maybe somebody else accidentally sent you the save game I sent them, and not the one they saved after playing.
Chronomancy: the art and science of divining the appropriate time for an act.

Russell
Noble
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2000 2:01 am
Location: USA

Postby Russell » Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:33 am

So did Nick accidentally send on his own turn and not the Decados turn? Let's get this figured out.

Nick Cav
Space Legionnaire
Posts: 103
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Location: Hauppauge, NY

Postby Nick Cav » Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:35 pm

idk, maybe the game didnt save properly? idk, i loaded the file and it's at decados' turn so ill resend it right now :)


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