Non-House AIs

A very good patch

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Mind Elemental
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Non-House AIs

Postby Mind Elemental » Sat Jul 26, 2003 6:57 am

I thought I'd quickly clear up what the League, Church, Vau, and Symbiots do in Hyperion; if I'm not mistaken, they build units if you go to war with them (this includes the League declaring the Third Republic), they do not fight each other, and they don't build starships. Is this correct?

Oh, and I think that in some other mods, though I don't remember which, they do build starships and go to war with each other; is this correct? And if so, any chance we could see that implemented in Hyperion?

Thanks!

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Re: Non-House AIs

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Sat Jul 26, 2003 6:31 pm

Mind Elemental:

Excellent comment!

Okay, here's the deal on the non-House players:

Symbiots:

Only build these units:

Symbiot Spitter
Symbiot Minder
Symbiot Tank
Symbiot Arcer
Symbiot Butcher
Symbiot Reaver
Symbiot Nester

None of those are space units, but I have made the Minder into a Lander unit with 1 Cargo Slot. So they can now build space ships, but in a limited fashion. Minders have pretty good Psy so they are able to defend themselves in space. More work may need to be done here, but it seems a good start.

Vau:

Don't build any units unless someone is at war with them. Then they only build the duplicated Vau Hover units and a Vau Mercenary (Lander unit) in the Militia, Arty, ATG, and A-A categories.

They do not build spaceships - I can certainly look into this to see what to do here.

Church and League:

Build units in Agoras, Monasteries, Alien Ruins, and Universities.

I haven't figured out yet how to get them to build space ships in the space ship unit categories. The only way may be to have them build space ships in the non-space categories (like I did with the Symbiots and the Minder) they build now.

It is certainly an area I'm going to be working on again soon as I determine what units the non-House players are still building and what I can do to try to get them to build units that will make them much more challenging.

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Re: Non-House AIs

Postby Mind Elemental » Sun Jul 27, 2003 4:28 am

*nods* I see. Thanks for the reply!

I've seen the Church have humungous stacks of monks/inquisitors (can't remember which at the moment, sorry) in its monasteries on Holy Terra in the Hyperionised Original Galaxy; not sure if these were built or if they started with them.

Interestingly enough, though, the League doesn't seem to be building its super-units; I think they declared the 3rd Republic ages ago, though I could be wrong, and I recently went to war with them. Wiped out their space fleet and am merrily bombarding Leagueheim, and so far, no 3rd Republic Hover Tanks/Hyper Bombers/etc. -- just League Security Droids.

Oh, and although we probably all know that the League doesn't use its League Bulk Haulers to attack in space, it does use them to bombard. :D

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Re: Non-House AIs

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Sun Jul 27, 2003 4:24 pm

Mind Elemental:

To tell if a unit has been constructed by the non-House computer AO, look at their loyalty. If their loyalty is 0, then they've been built by a non-House computer player. The only exception to this is the Rebel player - if they move to a Ruin or Alien Ruins and find other Rebel units there, the discovered Rebel units will have 0% loyalty.

The problem with the League is that they only build 7 units in Agoras because they need to have 13 spots available for all the resource types. That's why they also build units in Alien Ruins - those they seem to build move off to a nearby city. Of course they have to have Alien Ruins and Agoras with free unit slots to build their units, otherwise they won't build anything.

The computer AO doesn't seem to have any problems with using a unit's Ranged Space, though, as you point out.

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Re: Non-House AIs

Postby Mind Elemental » Mon Jul 28, 2003 6:22 am

Ahh, I see. Thanks! :)

Does this mean that it'll be counterproductive to bombard Agoras, because that will just let the League use the freed-up unit slot to build a truly nasty unit? (Mind you, I'm probably going to do it anyway, because I want them to field their 3rd Republic stuff))

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Re: Non-House AIs

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Tue Jul 29, 2003 3:28 pm

Mind Elemental:

Yes - if their Agoras are full, you'll only free up building slots by destroying their units.

But, if you want to face their 3rd Republic Hover units, then go for it!

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Re: Non-House AIs

Postby Mind Elemental » Wed Jul 30, 2003 1:45 am

Okay -- they don't seem to be building the 3rd Republic Hover units, despite the Agoras being nearly empty. I could be wrong, though -- I'll keep you posted. :)

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Re: Non-House AIs

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Wed Jul 30, 2003 7:57 am

Mind Elemental:

You won't be able to see them because they are stealthy.

Attack them to see if they are really there!

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Re: Non-House AIs

Postby Deathifier » Thu Jul 31, 2003 7:11 am

Just a short note about the non-house AI's - they will go to war with each other if they get into a situation that makes them unintentionally go to war with houses - that is one of their stacks is moving around and runs into an unspotted stack of someone elses and for some reason automatically engages in combat (always happens).

So you can certainly see league vs church wars, in fact in one of the PBEMs I was in we had the league and church fighting each other, the rebels, some of the houses and anything else they ran into.
Happens most if the different sides have units on the same planet (the PBEM had league and church sharing a planet).

I believe everyone is at war with the symbiots by default as well.

- Deathifier

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Re: Non-House AIs

Postby Mind Elemental » Thu Jul 31, 2003 8:42 am

So that's how to get them to go to war?

*gets an evil gleam in his eye*

And gotcha! :D

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Re: Non-House AIs

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Thu Jul 31, 2003 3:20 pm

Oh yes - you can do that with the Vau, too!

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Re: Non-House AIs

Postby Mind Elemental » Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:24 am

Hmm. This is a quick poll... who among you invades the non-House homeworlds (Holy Terra/Pacem, Leagueheim, Chernobog, Vau, De Moley/Nova Terra)? By 'invade', I mean 'there to stay', not just 'swipe their sceptors and blast off'. :D

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Re: Non-House AIs

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Sun Aug 10, 2003 7:03 am

I usually like to save them for later (and then I restart before I get a chance to take them on!), although, I guess once you get a big space fleet, you can try weeding out some of their space fleet.

I was at the point where I was about ready to send my big 20 unit space fleet to Tengi (when I was playing al-Malik) and take on the Rebels there. But now I'm going to restart so it'll be a while before I get to that point again. I'm either going to play Decados or Hawkwood this time as I haven't really played them yet. I've played quite a bit of Hazat and al-Malik recently and those were pretty fun.

I think in the latest version of the Corinthian Galaxy you're going to need to keep a much closer eye on the Symbiots as now they have plenty of raw material to produce lots of units (as if they didn't before!).

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Re: Non-House AIs

Postby Mind Elemental » Sun Aug 10, 2003 11:01 am

Do you ever use the Ministries, especially the Fleet, to take on the Rebel/Church/League/etc. spacefleets, instead of waiting 'til you can muster stacks of 20 House spaceships?

And I thought that the Symbiots produced units for free?

... On that note, in my Corinthian game, I noticed that there are a lot of Symbiots -- including a Symbiot spacefleet that's broken past Stigmata! -- that are owned by the rebels. o.O Intentional?

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Re: Non-House AIs

Postby Matt Caspermeyer » Sun Aug 10, 2003 10:39 pm

Do you ever use the Ministries, especially the Fleet, to take on the Rebel/Church/League/etc. spacefleets, instead of waiting 'til you can muster stacks of 20 House spaceships?
I usually use the Fleet to take out the Rebel stacks and then give it away once I become Regent - I like to beef up the Ministries one by one and then give the most beefed up one to the player in last place. I know this is charity, but I figure I might as well make them tougher so that when I get around to attacking them, I'll have a lot more fun!

And I thought that the Symbiots produced units for free?
They do, and so what I mean by resources are cities. The more cities they have the more units they can crank out!

... On that note, in my Corinthian game, I noticed that there are a lot of Symbiots -- including a Symbiot spacefleet that's broken past Stigmata! -- that are owned by the rebels. o.O Intentional?
There are some Rebel units that are Symbiot units. So either that was them or the Rebels captured some Symbiot units. I've see that before.

The Symbiots actually like to use the bug where you can't capture a loaded Jump or Space unit on the ground. The Symbiots will land and not unload their units and so then can't be captured on the ground. But sometimes, they get caught where they stay on the ground after they've unloaded their units (maybe space ahead was too crowded).

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