ai and universal warehouse

A very good patch

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Tainted Pikachu
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ai and universal warehouse

Postby Tainted Pikachu » Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:04 pm

question: is universal warehouse always on for ai players regardless of what option i choose at game start, or, the ai units/cities do not consume food. i've noticed they never starve regardless of no food supply in vicinity.

lordmoore
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Re: ai and universal warehouse

Postby lordmoore » Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:16 pm

They have the a matter converter that allows then to build, supply, feed there units at no cost.
Plus they can buy from any Agora in the known universe without the need to know where it is. :cool:
Enemies strengthen you.
Allies weaken.
I tell you this in the hope that it will help you understand why I act as I do in full knowledge that great forces accumulate in my Empire but with one wish--the wish to destroy me.

Alexander
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Re: ai and universal warehouse

Postby Alexander » Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:02 am

Sounds kinda unfair.
"Damn those Li Halan!"
- Han-Shabal, Leader of the
Al-Malik as of the Li Halan
Invasion of Istakhr

lordmoore
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Location: USA

Re: ai and universal warehouse

Postby lordmoore » Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:57 pm

Well,when you consider the AI of games around the time when EFS was being made... it was standard to give the AI an advantage to compensate for the 'human factor'.
Enemies strengthen you.

Allies weaken.

I tell you this in the hope that it will help you understand why I act as I do in full knowledge that great forces accumulate in my Empire but with one wish--the wish to destroy me.

Grimly
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Re: ai and universal warehouse

Postby Grimly » Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:07 pm

Plus, consider the extra code they would have needed to write to simulate human behavior for an AI that can't possibly appreciate realism. It's hard even for humans who are playing to observe this lack of realism because it is invisible. Imagine, too, if you found yourself beating the AI simply because it misplaced its food supply.

The AI would need to be trained to move resources physically. Considering that it can barely move intelligently at all . . . and will never transport Engineers across space, nor use naval transports . . . it's a pretty minor oversight in comparison.

I think this game was intended to be used from Christmas morning to New Years and then thrown away. It wasn't supposed to stand up to the scrutiny to which we have subjected it.
Grimly

lordmoore
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Location: USA

Re: ai and universal warehouse

Postby lordmoore » Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:36 pm

I believe it simply ran out of development time.
Plus, it was a different generation of computers then also.... you just can't write an AI that utilizes tons of factors to make intelligent moves, construct various units, organize attacks, transport, space fleets, water ships, hover items, diplomacy, etc... without devoting processor power (and lots of code). The lastest version of stars (its in limbo and been that way for years now)was suppose to deal with this by allowing the computer to learn based off your moves! It was also suppose to have some of the best stars players beta testing it to give it a decent AI and you could devote how much pp (processing power) would be alotted to it. Alas, the funding monster has kept this game out of my hands (and everyone elses who wasn't on the beta). Galactic Civilization deals with this by allowing the AI to run even during your turn. So the AI has plenty of time to process its various variables.

In otherwords, there are ways to build an AI to deal lessen the human factor but they require pp and when this game was written... the pp wasn't there to do it effectively (and mass market).
Enemies strengthen you.

Allies weaken.

I tell you this in the hope that it will help you understand why I act as I do in full knowledge that great forces accumulate in my Empire but with one wish--the wish to destroy me.

Alexander
Fighter pilot
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:01 am
Location: Neo Kobe

Re: ai and universal warehouse

Postby Alexander » Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:52 pm

So, why does Holistic not simply remake their Game with today´s Standard Technology and implent all the Features they forgot/could not get into the game and also those made by Fans by acknowledging their Work... ?
"Damn those Li Halan!"
- Han-Shabal, Leader of the
Al-Malik as of the Li Halan
Invasion of Istakhr

Tainted Pikachu
Fighter pilot
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 1:01 am
Location: Bahia, Oklahoma, no wait, Croatia

Re: ai and universal warehouse

Postby Tainted Pikachu » Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:59 pm

donnie d, they're not paradox. efs development died back in the late nineties.

Alexander
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Location: Neo Kobe

Re: ai and universal warehouse

Postby Alexander » Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:08 pm

Damn.
*bwahahahbuhuhuhu...*
"Damn those Li Halan!"
- Han-Shabal, Leader of the
Al-Malik as of the Li Halan
Invasion of Istakhr

BobFrench2112
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Contact:

Re: ai and universal warehouse

Postby BobFrench2112 » Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:08 am

Maybe we could round up a million or so to fund a 1 year project :-)

Tainted Pikachu
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Re: ai and universal warehouse

Postby Tainted Pikachu » Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:53 pm

you got the money?

...WE SUPPORT YOU ALL THE WAY!

Grimly
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Re: ai and universal warehouse

Postby Grimly » Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:04 pm

On the other hand, I've been doing a lot of experimentation, and I am coming to the opinion that the AI is not so bad in itself. The problem is that it is hampered by badly-thought-out externalities.

1) If the resource balance isn't right, the AI has difficulty producing units. They paid little attention to this; Sean has commented on it

2) AI unit production is also controlled by something called the Build-Combat Table, which hamstrings the AI if there are too many unit types, with ground units being especially limited. Matt discovered this

3) The game was designed to be static. Instead of 5 Scepters per House/Church/League, which can be neither built nor destroyed, these units should have been buildable by special means. When a House can build its own political power (in my galaxy, with cash), you get radical shifts in relative power every 10 years. AI Regents are constantly trying to claim the Crown, but the other Houses are smart enough to not support them as Emperor. Right now I'm just trying to control this. My units are Electors and can be built in 5 cities (999 to build, 999 maintenance, 10 years to build so no problem with the first election)
Grimly


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